The Cascadia Rivalry

Football is nothing without fans

EFW covered the incredible rise of Seattle Sounders last season with interviews and their attendance figures are indeed impressive. When we did so, we were also inundated by Portland Timbers fans who left us in no doubt as to the intensity of the football rivalry, showing us that the Americans at least get that bit.

Then, the clubs were in different leagues, but Portland and another side from the Pacific Northwest, Vancouver Whitecaps, are set to join MLS in 2011, giving the fans the chance to resurrect the rivalries and better still travel to away fans and experience that awayday feeling that is the core of football culture.

You would think that this is something eagerly anticipated by all. Sadly not. Sounders FC's majority owner, Hollywood director Joe Roth, has threatened to restrict away fans to just 150, the minimum under MLS requirements despite Seattle's Qwest Field having 28,000 empty seats for every home game.

We asked Steve Clare, the editor of Prost Amerika the only site that covers all three clubs, what the hell was going on:

Can you sum up what the battle is about? Next year three sides from the Pacific Northwest, an area we refer to as Cascadia after the mountain range, will play in Major League Soccer. They are about a 3 hour drive apart and all three cities have a long (for America) history of football and of rivalry. All three were members of the old NASL in the 1970s. With Vancouver and Portland about to join, these rivalries will be resumed.

Sounds great, what's the problem? Your readers will know that the publication of the fixture calendar is a moment awaited with high anticipation to see when the derby days are, especially those away from home. That anticipation stands threatened by a policy of restricting away fans to just 150.

Where does the 150 limit come from? It's an MLS mandated number but fails to take into account the long history of football rivalry and indeed away day traveling in Cascadia.

Who's making the threat? No-one had said it outright until yesterday but conventional wisdom suggested that the Seattle Sounders are the moving force behind this. Their majority owner Joe Roth advocated such a policy in a meeting with fans, and Vancouver's top guy Paul Barber has indicated to Whitecaps fans that he is more sympathetic to their wish to watch their side in Seattle and Portland. Portland owner Merritt Paulson was articulately coy when I asked him about it in an interview. Yesterday, a unified statement released by Portland’s Timbers Army, Seattle’s Emerald City Supporters, and Vancouver’s Southsiders specifically pointed the blame at Sounders FC.

Joe Roth set to incur the wrath? (Photo: Jane Gershovich/Prost Amerika)

Credit where Merritt's due? Portland owner Merritt Paulson (Photo: Allison Andrews/soccercityusa.com)

How have fan groups managed to stay united given the hostility I observed on EFW when I first interviewed you? Their love of the sport is stronger than their hatred of each other! Seriously though, despite their reservations, all three groups have really risen to the challenge of putting the common good first. I hope that's what your readers take away from this as a better indication of the strength of, and love for, the sport here. Most of them were here for football before MLS arrived and will be here for the sport until they kick the bucket.

Are the three clubs united or is it Seattle v the rest? The evidence seems to suggest so but neither of the other two clubs has said so publicly. So far the three ownership groups are not criticising each other publicly, but internal discussions between the owners of Vancouver and their Southsiders group, and the Timbers and the Timbers Army, certainly suggest that neither of them is aggressively promoting a travel ban. Joe Roth and Sounders GM Adrian Hanauer have supported the policy more publicly. The unified statement form the three groups fingering Sounders FC though probably opens a new chapter. Portland and Vancouver fans will be asking for a clear statement form their own clubs, almost certainly based around the 5% rule.

What if Portland sell more than 95% of their capacity to Season ticket holders? The figure needn't be 5%. My gut feeling is that a lower number might be acceptable to some, but they could also sell a 15 (MLS will have 17 home games next year)game package that excludes the derby games for a cut price. With vision and creativity, there are ways to make this happen without the clubs leaving a single seat unsold.

The Timbers Army at Qwest Field (Photo: Rick Morrison/Prost Amerika)

Portland and Vancouver fans mingling at Swangard Stadium. (Photo: Michael McColl/Vancouver Southsiders)

Isn't there an English connection at Vancouver? Vancouver brought Paul Barber as an executive over from Spurs and I've been told by Caps fans that he knows how vital away support is to the vibrancy of the game. They seem very confident he is batting for them.

What are Sounders FC's objections? Fairness, security and the integrity of the home crowd.

Fairness? Sounders FC has a bigger capacity than the others. Qwest Field holds more than 65,000 seats for NFL, of which they only make 36,000 available to the Sounders. Sounders FC claim it would be unfair to their own fans to offer more places to the Timbers and Whitecaps than they could have when Sounders travel. The other two clubs have far smaller number of seats at their disposal.

I have to say though that this argument is a bit of a fantasy in Sounders FC's minds. I have spoken to most of the fan leaders in Seattle, none of whom have advanced this argument. They recognise the other clubs can offer less but nonetheless do not wish to turn away opposing fans because of it. The Emerald City Supporters policy is to allow them the FIFA mandated 5% of capacity allocation to away fans. All sides seem to agree a percentage allocation is fair, so I'm not sure on whose behalf Sounders Front Office is advancing this.

Security? Joe Roth actually used the word 'riot' to describe a possibility of the consequences of allocating them more than the minimum number of tickets. Maybe that was Hollywood hyperbole but it upset many people that someone charged with advancing the sport here would use such detrimental and pejorative language to portray potential fans. It seemed like a gift to the many enemies football has in the mainstream media here. It also made him seem slightly detached from the reality of watching a game in Cascadia.

But going beyond that unwise choice of words, of course there is an issue with bringing 2000 fans in from another city although the NFL Seahawks seem to manage it without riots.

Seattle's main railway station is right under the stadium and this is something the authorities manage in Europe week in and week out. I refuse to believe that 2000 people from two generally law abiding cities cannot come in and out without bother, or that our excellent Seattle Police Department can't handle it.

The integrity of the home crowd, what does that mean? Beats me. Four decades watching football and I never heard it before now.

Won't fans travel anyway and buy their tickets on the internet and from touts, and then be in all parts of the ground, thus creating a much bigger security risk? Of course they will. You know it, I know it and the fans know it. It's what Basil Fawlty would call 'the bleedin obvious'. But none of us run the clubs. People who just don't get supporter culture do, whether that be Joe Roth or the NFL people from Vulcan who occupy many of the places of power and influence at Sounders FC. All three fan groups are adamant that not allocating sufficient tickets to visiting supporters is a recipe for trouble. They are very worried about the consequences for the sport if this 150 ticket policy leads to a lack of segregation.

Is there any history of violence in the Pacific Northwest? Sounders FC had zero arrests from about half a million attendees in Year 1. It would be interesting to see that compared with the numbers lifted at the NFL Seahawks games. This is relevant because Vulcan Sports and Entertainment own the NFL team outright and part of the Sounders.

Many football fans, including many in Portland and especially Vancouver travel to see the Seahawks, and are livid about the insinuation that they are welcome customers when watching NFL but a security risk when coming down for football. There is real anger about this in Vancouver especially. I was told there are over 3000 Seahawks season ticket holders in Canada who spend a fortune coming down, not just on tickets, but on merchandise, food, drink and hotels. Now they feel they have been accused of being potential hooligans by Roth and want to hear someone at Vulcan SE stick up for them. I'd never seen Canadians so angry. They're just not known for it.

Vulcan has just appointed a new CEO, Peter McLoughlin, and those Whitecaps/Seahawks fans are expecting to hear from him. If not, they tell me, he'll be hearing from them. But yes, fans accept games have a risk attached to them. Several creative solutions have already been proposed to Sounders FC. Supporters are willing to closely work with all to make this go smoothly.

How are the parties addressing the issue that Seattle can simply offer more seats? By quoting FIFA's 5% rule. Sounders fans seem to accept they will get less tickets than they are given, just as Arsenal get less tickets at Stamford Bridge because it has a smaller capacity.

What can EFW readers to do to help? That's not for me to say. But there is a Facebook Group where others have expressed opposition to the 150 ticket suggestion.

Is there a danger that Sounders will become the global poster child for anti-football? This is my biggest concern personally. I have watched the club since the USL days and although I cover all three local clubs, I do live here and attend every home game. I'm paying out of my own pocket to watch them in Los Angeles at the weekend. Although Prost Amerika's match reports stay doggedly unbiased, I would hate to see the club become the personification of American corporate crassness in the football world. The thought of Sounders becoming football's Halliburton appalls me.

US football has made so much progress in recent years despite the shame of only drawing with England. Sounders have been part of that progress in a big way and got many many things spectacularly right. The Pacific Northwest is the hub or the epicentre of football culture in North America and Joe's threat allows for the real potential of the region being portrayed in a diametrically opposite way. This proposal threatens to take a fantastic opportunity and turn it into a PR disaster that will follow the club around for decades.

What happens next? There are three possibilities. Sounders reaffirm the policy and the issue completely overshadows the close-season and indeed all MLS publicity about the renewal of the rivalries in the Northwest. All three sides can then anticipate protests. A more generous bi-partisan agreement between Portland and Vancouver cannot be discounted, though I doubt either of them would say that publicly yet. Alternatively, the three clubs could announce a numerical or percentage formula of some sort and start working on the game day administration challenges and PR opportunities that presents.

One think won't happen. The issue won't be going away. Unlike the Cascadia fans.

Definitely worth mentioning the excellent work of the Football Supporters Federation at this juncture. Check out their website.

Follow European Football Weekends and the FSF on Twitter

Journalists wanting to cover the story can email Steve at this address.

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Seattle Sounders

Sounders revisited

Eight months ago, EFW dipped a toe into the MLS for the first time by running a Q&A with the editor of Prost Amerika - the influential website attached to the Seattle Sounders. What followed took me a little bit by surprise. Comments on that article still flood into EFW HQ to this day as fans of both the Sounders and their rivals Portland Timbers have a "friendly" little pop at each other. Where would football be without healthy rivalry eh!?

Initially, I regarded "soccerball" - as some Brits occasionally call it - as a bit of a joke. I'll freely admit that the only reason I began writing about it was to try and get a generous fatcat chairman of one of the clubs onside. The reason? A shameless wish that he'd send EFW 2 x flight tickets to come over and cover a matchday experience (actually, we're still holding out for that, just think of the publicity - Ed). The feedback on the Sounders v Timbers shenanigans though convinced us that this was a game that shouldn't be missed. As such, we've genuinely pencilled it into our 2011 schedule.

Arguably the best signing the Sounders made in pre-season was our very own Arlo White from the BBC. White, who was a stable on the Radio Five Live football coverage has become the new "voice of the Sounders". It's a long way from his beloved Leicester City but he seems to have seattled (sic) in quite nicely thankyou very much. Good luck Arlo lad!

With the MLS season kicking off this week, it seemed as good a time as any to revisit the Sounders camp and find out exactly what's been occurring up there in the NorthWest of USA, USA, USA. So, we dialled up the good people at Prost Amerika again to find out how that rivalry with the Timbers is progressing, what on earth the CONCACAF Champions League is all about and to have a chat about *ahem* Freddie Ljungberg's dog:

It's been eight months since we last covered the Seattle Sounders on EFW, you've had a bit of success since then I gather? Absolutely. Sounders FC won the US Open Cup, the American equivalent of the FA Cup. It was a fantastic night in Washington DC. It was Sounders first success in a tournament they also entered as a minor league club, but to win a trophy in their first year as an MLS club was fantastic. The club also became the first expansion side to make the play-offs in Season 1 for over a decade, but lost to Houston over two legs. It wasn't a bad first year, but everyone here is hungry for more success.

That must have been quite a night? Hell yeah. After the game, I was given access to the dressing room and interviewed just about everybody for a Cup Final podcast. Freddie Ljungberg expressed his joy in Swedish and comedian Drew Carey and US goalkeeping legend Kasey Keller also contributed. Thanks especially to Freddie who pulled me out the way just as Jamaican international centre-half Tyrone Marshall was about to drench me in champagne. If you get close enough to them, Sounders FC can be a very close and welcoming club. After the game and filing a massive match report, I met some of the traveling fans in the bar. Many of them are guys I stood on the terrace with in the old days. They were doing the stuff that European fans take for granted on 3000 mile trips, kipping on airport floors, finding beer at 3 in the morning, lending and borrowing believable excuses for missing work the next day. Quite a night.

Funny thing was, the night before the match I was given access to the players in the team hotels. Long time club servant Roger Levesque wasn't one of those scheduled for interview but he came up and talked to me anyway as he always does. We were doubtful we could use it, as we didn't think he would play, but we ran the story anyway. Roger not only played, he scored the second goal.

Sounders Fredy Montero & Union's Stefan Miglioranzi jump for joy at the seasons opener in Seattle this week.

What's this CONCACAF Champions League all about then? It's the North and Central American equivalent of the Champions League. Sounders cup victory grants them a place in the pre-qualifiers. Sadly, MLS sides do not always treat it with the respect it deserves, and it is clearly not as prestigious as the UEFA equivalent. The problem MLS clubs have is the roster size stipulation. Clubs are only (currently) allowed 24 players on their roster and this makes putting out strong squads for every game a juggling act. Many MLS clubs de-prioritise the CONCACAF cup and focus on MLS instead. I think Sounders might be different though, because I suspect a deep seated ambition to play on the global stage and that means being a hit in CONCACAF. They have to play a two-legged qualifier first before the group stage. That happens last week of July, so stay tuned.

I find it incredible that Jack Warner is still in charge of CONCACAF after a list of (reported) misdemeanors as long as your arm don't you? Is he still doing Dixon of Dock Green?

The fans quite like the idea of a midweek away trip to Mexico to play Monterrey then? 99% of those who expressed a preference said 'does Barbados have a team?'

Being in the CONCACAF Champions League can only further raise your profile surely? The honeymoon seems never ending at the moment. It will definitely raise the profile if Sounders win it. Being hammered by Joe Public (yes that is the real name of a team) won't really, I wouldn't agree quite about the honey moon. The fans on the chat boards are being a little more critical than last season, and the club can't expect the journalistic silence of last year when they make mistakes. There was a general but unspoken agreement to cut them a break in year one if they did so. If they repeat them however, I think it may be more public this year. It is funny because it's true. I give you Joe Public FC - Ed).

Union's Toni Stahl sees his second yellow AND a red during the Sounders 2-0 victory this week.

Personally, I can't wait until the 2011 MLS season when the Sounders can renew their rivalry with the Portland Timbers on the pitch. Is that (rivalry) still as intense as ever? I'm really looking forward to the arrival of both Portland and Vancouver. Both are great clubs with great and committed fans. The Timbers Army will bring something fresh and energetic to MLS, and have done a wonderful job keeping football at the core of life in their city. Vancouver Whitecaps have been adding some serious experience to their Front Office staff and already have a youth set up, called the Residency Scheme which is the envy of many. Prost Amerika hopes to increase its coverage of both clubs in the run up to their MLS entry. I' m already looking for people in both cities to help with match day coverage. I'd love to have match reporter and cameraman there if anybody's interested.

The rivalry isn't like the Swansea/Cardiff or Portsmouth/Southampton thing. Those four cities have economic and political differences that go back centuries. There's a few on message boards who like to make out the rivalry is World War 3 but the numbers who want to mimic Green Street are low, but of course loud. (They'll be arriving shortly on the comments section of this interview to proclaim the severity of their hatred but it isn't like that for 99% of us). Besides, aren't we all tough as old boots armed with a keyboard? It should be noted that the respective largest fan groups of Portland and Seattle played a friendly on March 28th, and communicate frequently on matters of mutual interest. A prominent Timbers Army leader was happy to guest on the Radio Sounders Show. If I had to compare it to any English rivalry, I'd say the Portland v Seattle rivalry is not unlike East Anglia in its intensity. Of course, Seattle having Vancouver as a second rival waters that down slightly. The rivalry with Vancouver is more amiable than the one with Portland, but Canadians are just plain friendly at the worst of times. The Whitecaps are really hard to dislike as are Canadians in general.

Football focus. A Sounders ballboy keeps his eye on the job in hand.

It is a shame you no longer contest in the Cascadia Cup. Was that as good as it sounds with the Sounders-Timbers-Whitecaps round robin of matches? The dream was always to have it while playing at the top level. The two year gap without it will be worth it to fulfill that dream. Nonetheless, my friends in the Front Office at Vancouver did like to send me the occasional picture of the Cup once in a while, until they lost it to Portland - who I'm sure will send me a picture of it draped in green and yellow ribbons as soon as they see this interview.

Your MLS season kicked off this week with an opening fixture against Philadelphia Union. That was their first ever fixture wasn't it? Yes, their first competitive game ever. How often do you get to see something like that?

Another franchise team then. This seems to be the way forwards in the MLS no? In 2011, two existing clubs Portland and Vancouver enter MLS. Montreal Impact are pretty certain to be next. So the next three won't be new clubs as such, but clubs with long traditions and a social and cultural presence in their cities. After that, I suspect, there will be one further addition to take the league to 20.

News reaches this side of the pond that you've sold a wheelbarrow full of season tickets for the new season. Anticipation must be at fever pitch? The hit numbers on my website are astronomical. 32,000 season tickets have been sold and the club is capping it at that, They could probably have sold more, but that would have required opening the Upper Tier of the stadium, a move the club remains reluctant to make.

Is Freddie Ljungberg sticking around? He arrived back in late January and is committed to the club.

He also has a dog called Amadeus if you're interested? Yes, here he is and there is another photo here.

Amadeus Ljungberg. Woof!

After Chelsea and Barcelona last season, do you have any more prestigious friendly matches with European opposition lined up for this season? Nothing declared as yet although respected bloggers have made it reasonably clear the club should steer away from guests with racist baggage in a progressive city like Seattle. Every fan group I've spoken to is in agreement so one would hope you could at least rule a few out. We do know there are three friendlies added to the season ticket package so fingers crossed for a big EPL side, and a Serie A side. Maybe even Lewes.

How do see the new season going? The Western Conference will be very competitive. Houston have lost two key players in Stuart Holden and Ricardo Clark, and LA will be without Beckham, so Sounders and Chivas USA should be able to narrow the gap, especially Sounders playing in their second year, and adding Swiss international Blaise Nkufo after the World Cup. Real Salt Lake had an average regular season but timed their run right to win the play-offs. I expect their regular season form will improve slightly too, as everyone now believes Jason Kreis to be a genius. Dallas finished the season very strongly and if Jeff Cunningham starts as he finished may surprise a few in the West.

Sounders need to extract more out of talented stars like Steve Zakuani and Nate Jaqua who are both young and should be on the upward curve. They also need to hope Osvaldo Alonso remains in stellar form. If they drop their standards any, there will be a host of challengers on their shoulders.

In the East, New York are bound to be better, especially with the inspiration of a cracking new stadium, not to mention a new coach. I expect Columbus Crew won't be worse than last year. After all, they walked the regular season (known as the Supporters Shield), despite failing to win in their first seven, in a 30 game sprint. Chicago should improve but I suspect DC United's struggles may continue. Their best close season signing is their Media Guy! Philadelphia in their first year may be more of an expansion side than Seattle were. New England will remain tough to beat but the loss of talisman and legend Steve Ralston will be felt throughout the club.

Although it would be nice to see Toronto, Kansas and San Jose improve, there are more signs of improvement at other clubs around them, and all three have lost a veteran who seemed, at least from the outside, to be inspirational including your compatriot Darren Huckerby.

Thanks to Rick Morrison/MLS Examiner for the photos.

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